She sings with powerful clarity, dances with the grace of a ballerina, and acts with the power to bring tears to your eyes. She's one of Broadway's leading ladies, and one of my favorite all-time artists, Karen Ziemba. I've been following Karen's career since ever since I got to know her as a regular in my ballet classes. Right now, she's very much in the news, with a slew of rave reviews for her beautifully touching performance in the big hit dance play, Contact (winning a Tony for Best Performance by a Featured Actress in a Musical).

Finis: Well, Karen, let's begin at the beginning. How did you get started?

Karen: My mother always loved to dance, and took classes as a child. Her mother, Winifred Heidt, was a leading mezzo-soprano at the New York City Center Opera, and in order to continue her career in New York, left my mother and her two brothers behind in Detroit. Sadly, that ended my mother's dancing lessons.

So, when I came along, my mom encouraged me to dance. She told my dad I walked funny, and that I would need dance lessons to help me. Because my mother and father both loved music, there was always music (symphonic, show music) playing at home, so I was very influenced by music. At home, I would dance on my own, to get attention.

Finis: So did I! I would put on Swan Lake (a phonograph record) and just dance till I dropped. When did you start studying?

Karen: When I was 6.

Finis: Me, too!

Karen: I had this wonderful Russian teacher in St. Joseph, Michigan, who taught at the YWCA. She was a beautiful dancer (I don't know what she was doing there.) I think there must have been 30 girls in class, and I always stood in the front, and she gave me leading parts.

Finis: That sounds familiar. I had almost the same experience. How often did you study?

Karen: One class a week, then about a year later we moved to Detroit. I studied with Evelyn Kreason, and she had a wonderful school, especially in ballet. She also had a great tap teacher. So I had both. The great thing about Mrs. Kreason is that she didn't want to keep her girls in a fish bowl. She took her best girls to New York city every summer, to take classes at The Joffrey, with Mary Anthony, and at The Ailey School, so we could see we weren't as good as we thought we were in Detroit. We also did regional ballet festivals, which also opened our eyes. And I think it is exposure to others that helped me to see what was out there.

Finis: Lucky you. In Hawaii, during the 40's, when I was growing up, there was nothing to see, except a handful of touring ballet dancers every two years or so.

Karen: I remember a pas de deux class with John Kriza and Ruth Ann Koesun (stars of The American Ballet Theater in the 40's and 50's) and we were so inexperienced compared to the other dancers. But it was such a good thing to be the worst person in the class and therefore knowing what you could strive to do. It isn't always good to be the biggest fish in the pond, because there's always room to grow; there's always room for improvement.

Finis: That is an understatement! So, when did you know you were going to be a professional? And a professional what?

Karen: I knew when I was 15 that I would go into some sort of ballet company. However, in high school I also sang in the chorale. I always sang - I was a pretty good musician, took a little bit of piano. I always sang second soprano, which is harmony.

Finis: So, this wonderful voice you have that is so powerful and crystal clear was already developing. Were you thinking you would perform on Broadway?

Karen: I wasn't at the time, but then they had auditions in my junior year for West Side Story. They needed a Maria who could do her own dream ballet and also sing "Tonight" So there I was, and I remember, one night, my ballet teacher, Mrs. Kreason, said to me, "You know, Karen, you have to come to ballet class at least three times a week. You have to decide what you want to do."

I went to my chorale teacher (we sang a cappella) and I told him I couldn't play Maria, because I had to make a choice between ballet and the show. He said, "No, you have to do this, not just because we need you, but because you're good at this."

Finis: So?

Karen: I decided I would do West Side Story because it made me feel so good. There was something about singing, and speaking, and then dancing in the arms of a man that was so fulfilling. I probably didn't really understand the whole thing at the time. It was probably very subconscious, because it's where I've found myself today.

Finis: I danced for years secretly, not telling my friends, (Who would understand a boy studying ballet in Hawaii during the 40's and 50's?) but I knew I would end up in New York City. How did the show turn out? 

Karen: It turned out very well. and I thought, "Hmm, what a great show to start with!"

Finis: What did your ballet teacher say?

Karen: She thought it was pretty good. I continued on with the ballet and went on the University of Akron, which had an affiliation with The Ohio Ballet. I was a dance major. There was a chance for me to get into the company, and I did dance with The Ohio Ballet, for a year.

My first experience in the dance department was working with Jerry Burr, the head of the department. He totally changed my technique. Before I met Jerry, I had no idea what turnout or placement really was. I had always danced naturally. He literally took me back to square one. I was learning to do pliés and tendus properly for the first time. I learned all the things that made my pirouettes straighter. I developed my base, my center. It was magnificent. Everything else stemmed from that. For the first time in my life, I had a technique, and I had been dancing for 10 years. He's the one who told me to take your ballet classes.

Finis: Yes that's how I met you, at my old studio on Broadway and 77th. But little did I suspect then, that you would turn out to be such an outstanding actor-singer-dancer!

Karen: In my sophomore year at the University, Heinz Poll, the director, saw me and gave me an audition, and it was all downhill from there. My first ballet was Reflections by Arpino, Aureole by Paul Taylor, Cakewalk by Ruthanna Boris, and a ballet by Heinz. I couldn't keep it together. Heinz would always say "Karen, stop that silly smiling." I was still in the college, I didn't have the mindset. I performed well, but I didn't fit in the company. So they wrote me letter and asked me to leave the company.

Finis: What was your reaction?

Karen: I was only 19 years old. I was hurt. I was in a quandary. I didn't now whether to return to college for my degree, but since I loved being in school, I went back and finished my degree.

Finis: Not dancing?

Karen: No I stayed in the dance department and got my degree. I kept taking classes, ballet and modern. I was one of the better dancers in the school. By the way, the other day, I received the nicest note from Heinz Poll!

Finis: Your "silly smiling" - it's not silly, by the way, it's joyous - has certainly become a part of what Karen Ziemba is on Broadway. Good for you! What happened next?

Karen: I started getting into local musical theatre shows.

Finis: What did you do?

Karen: Can-Can, Pippin. Very "dance-y" shows.

Finis: And?

Karen: And, I kind of got hooked. I saw I could still dance, but I could sing, too.

Finis: Did you then have the vocal power you now have? You've got a fabulous voice. You really put your songs across with conviction, emotion, and power. I love to hear you sing.

Karen: Thank you. No. I just sang well, a nice natural voice. Nothing special.

Finis: So you graduated, and then what happened?

Karen: I moved to New York, but I didn't have a union card. So, for a year, I waited on tables and ushered at the Beacon Theatre. Eventually, someone I knew who was musical directing a summer tour of My Fair Lady said he needed four female singer-dancers. I got it, and got my card. After that, I got a job up at Equity Library Theatre. An agent saw me do SeeSaw, and then I started getting sent out for things.

My first job from the agency was at Radio City Music Hall, a big anniversary show called Encores. I was one of the singer-dancers. It was my first paying gig in New York City. As I was doing that, they were looking for people for the tour of A Chorus Line, I auditioned and got Maggie, who sings "At the Ballet."

I was with that for a while, and then went into the Broadway Company. That was my first Broadway show, and I ended up playing different roles because I was a swing. (Swing means you don't have a specific part, instead you understudy at least four different roles, if not more, and must be ready at any time to go on in any of them.)

Finis: Being a swing is a really tough job isn't it? I've seen some of my other students go on -- for instance, Nancy Hess went on for Chita Rivera in Kiss of the Spiderwoman and I was utterly amazed to see how she sailed through it without having done it before!

Karen: You have to be very smart. You have to be thinking constantly. And you need to put your own ego aside so that you can let yourself understudy someone else.

Finis: OK, what happened after A Chorus Line?

Karen: While we were rehearsing for the record-breaking performance of A Chorus Line, I found out I had gotten the Peggy Sawyer role in 42nd Street. I was cast with Jerry Orbach and Lee Roy Reams. It was my first big leading role. I learned a lot about comic timing and I became a better tap dancer. I learned technique in tap from doing that show.

Years later, I returned to A Chorus Line, and was a much better actor. I understood rejection and knew what it was all about. While I was doing the show, I put out feelers and did a lot of other little things. I wanted to do more acting. I wanted to be a character, like a mom, or the girl next door. I didn't just want to be the girl who kicks her legs. I knew that if I didn't leave A Chorus Line, I might get stuck there. I knew it was time for me to do other things.

Finis: So?

Karen: I did the National Tour of Jerome Robbins Broadway in Los Angeles. I did singing roles, the Charleston, the scherzo in West Side Story. Because of my ballet training, I was able to execute that show and appreciate what a really great choreographer Jerry Robbins was. How he choreographed from the human psyche, from a human place. As far as being human himself, Jerry could bring me to tears.

Finis: As he did so many other dancers before, and after you. He had a reputation for being very nasty and intimidating.

Karen: He would never call you by your real name. He'd call me by the parts I played. I felt it was his way of keeping you down. And yet, when I did his choreography, I felt elated. There was a great polarity between how I felt about the man and how I felt about his work. While working with him, I went into my old ballet mentality (You're fat, you're ugly, your turnout sucks, so just do it!) I never thought of talking back or reacting.

Finis: Unfortunately, working with directors like that can affect dancers in a very negative way. What did you do after Robbins?

Karen: The next really exciting thing that happened for me, theatrically, was that I auditioned for a revue of Kander & Ebb songs called And the World Goes Round. It was choreographed by Susan Stroman and directed by Scott Ellis. There were five cast members, and one of the female characters needed to be someone who could sing well and do the bulk of the dancing in the show. And so I was cast.

Finis: And I saw you, and couldn't believe what you were doing on that stage! I was so proud of you. You had absolutely transformed yourself from the young dancer in my classes to a woman you knew how to take over a stage with song and dance and acting. I was thrilled! It was a big break for you, wasn't it?

Karen: Yes, to be in the original cast in New York City is a big deal. I had never done that, and so it was very important. Not only that, it was a wonderful show.

Finis: It was a great showcase for you, and everyone I spoke with who saw the show, loved it, and loved you.

Karen: I did that for a while, and then after that, I started to do more singing. So then I started studying more seriously with a voice teacher. I felt then that I had better get prepared to do eight shows a week on Broadway, singing and dancing. At least I was hoping this would be so.

Finis: In that revue, you really became a serious singer, didn't you?

Karen: When you think of Kander & Ebb, you think of very strong vocal demands. Think of Liza Minelli.

Since I made that connection with Scott and Susan, they started to do more work, especially at City Opera, which was doing more musicals each year. I did a couple of musicals at City Opera, which was coming full circle for me, because my grandmother had sung with that company. When I went to work there with the musicals, the people there (of course they were older) were the same my grandmother had worked with.

My first experience at New York City Opera was in The Most Happy Fella. I played the tough-talking waitress, Cleo. She had some big dance numbers, but had to sing, too. After that, I did a production of 110 in the Shade by Harvey Schmidt and Tom Jones, which was the musical based on The Rainmaker. That was a very intense singing period of me because it was vocally a very difficult show. But it was a very good role for me.

I had begun a career with Susan Stroman. She won a Tony award for Crazy for You, and they brought me in, to replace Jodi Benson. It was a nice role for me. Dancing and singing that wonderful Gershwin music.

Finis: I'm sorry I didn't see you do it, but I did see the original cast, and I can see where you had another perfect part. We should talk about your singing.

Karen: I started out in New York City with a woman named Nancy Evers, who really taught me the joy of performing and singing. She taught me how to just get out there and put over a song. She made me feel confident. And then, I felt I needed to go back to even more basics and learn more technique so that I could get through eight shows a week. So I went to a woman named Joan Lader. She taught me to speak correctly, because if you now how to speak correctly, you are able to sing correctly. It's all about the little technical things you need to know in order to get proper support and get the sound out.

Finis: Well, from what I've seen, you certainly learned how to do that. I'm always amazed when I see former ballet dancers belting it out as beautifully as you do.

Karen: It's different from dancing classically, where you can't let your stomach muscles go. Being trained as a dancer for so many years, sometimes I feel a conflict. I want to stand in a certain way, and then I realize, no, I have to do it differently in order to get the sound out.

Finis: What do you have to say about the importance of a good ballet foundation?

Karen: Well, the first thing about having a good ballet background is that you get a certain discipline. There are certain rules you must follow in order to execute it properly. In life, also, there are rules you must follow. I'm looking back now, and see how that structure proved useful. You learn punctuality, team spirit, you're responsible for yourself and others.

Finis: If you can think about some of the roles you've played, or even what you 're doing now in Contact -where the choreography is based on your ballet technique - what do you think are important ideas for young would-be performers today?

Karen: Never take for granted how important it is to keep up a good technique. You can always fall back on it, especially if you're in a Broadway show, doing eight shows a week. You need that strength to hold you up, to keep you resilient. A good ballet barre before the show can always help warm you up and get you ready to sing, too.

Finis: Yes, my evening classes usually has cast members from Saturday Night Fever, Cabaret, Lion King, Fosse, and The Wild Party. They like the ballet exercises before a hard show.

Karen: I think that men, especially, who have been classically trained in ballet, know how to partner. It's very different from dancing by yourself. There's a certain responsibility, not just dropping the woman on her head, but there's mental and physical contact. There's passion, emotion, and the balance you have together. There is a way of lifting a person off the ground. My partner in Contact is wonderful because he has the experience of partnering ballerinas in the company he danced in. And, having been trained myself, I have the tools to work with, to make our presentation work.

Finis: Yes, I notice you two dance beautifully together. So smooth and effortlessly. Nothing like knowing what you're doing, and how to do it! Let's go back to Crazy for You.

Karen: After Crazy for You, my next big dance show was Steel Pier, which Susan Stroman and Scott Ellis created with me in mind for the leading lady. Kander & Ebb did the music. It was about a marathon dancer during the 1930's, so the kind of dancing we did was early partner dancing of the time: two step, the Charleston, fox trot, waltzing, lindy, all that stuff. That was a wonderful education.

Finis: I'm so sorry I missed seeing you in that show.

Karen: Unfortunately, that show was not a success. We made the CD, and colleges do productions of it now. That was the year that Chicago was a big hit on Broadway, and since Kander & Ebb had done the music for that, and it was such a big hit, I don't think it helped Steel Pier.

Finis: But nonetheless, you ended up doing Chicago.

Karen: Yes, I played Roxie Hart, which was a real left-hand turn, playing a bad girl. But it was good for me to do it. I did Bob Fosse's choreography for the first time, and it was very difficult. It's very tight and isolated. But, again, having a good ballet background helped.

Finis: Yes, Fosse himself was ballet trained and could do all the tricks.

Karen: Doing Chicago was my third trip to the Schubert Theatre. . . A Chorus Line, Crazy for You, and then Chicago. My costumes kept getting smaller and my dressing room larger!

Finis: That's not a bad order! Tell us about Chicago. You know that every jazz student in America has learned "All That Jazz" and it must be the most "done" number in American dance history!

Karen: I loved the show. It was physically very draining. You dance the entire evening in high heels, executing very isolated, restricted movements.

Finis: Isn't it more intense than other parts you've done?

Karen: Yes, there's no release in the show. In all my other shows, I've always had a romantic scene, you hug, you kiss, and you dance. With Chicago it's all about what I want, "gimme, gimme, gimme". I loved doing the show because the audience ate it up, but it's hard not having that human release, that physical contact with someone else.

Finis: Isn't that strange, with everyone half-naked in the show and undulating bodies all over the place?

Karen: Right, but that's what is so great about the show. You're showing the audience all the earthly desires, but at the same time, you're saying it's all a game, you don't really get anything, you can't do anything to me, I'm indestructible. What Fosse was saying was so ahead of its time, that fame and fortune can win out over goodness and morality. In any kind of theatrical show, when you get to experience all different kinds of emotions in an evening, then it's worthwhile. I think that's why Chicago and Contact are so great - there's sadness, humor, stuff that you can relate to, that happens in your own life. You go through terrific joy, then sadness.

While I was in Chicago, Susan Stroman sent me a cassette of classical music and asked me if I wanted to be part of a workshop of a new dance play she was putting together. And I thought, what could I do with this music? It's like all the ballet stuff I had done years ago. And sure enough, she gave me ballet steps, and this beautiful partner lifting me over his head.

Finis: How funny! Had you read the story?

Karen: Yes, the main thing was this husband berating me, telling me "don't move -- don't smile -- shut up!" And so what my character had were daydreams of all the things I wanted to have in my own life, and so whenever I was left alone, I would act them out.

Finis: You are really the anchor of the show. You're a woman trapped and imprisoned by a cruel husband. You have no choice. You can't walk out, you can't leave, so you have to do it in your head. And that makes your section so touching, and grounds the whole evening. You know, we all have dreams we wish we could fulfill. We all have that "if only I could . . ." so, to see you launch one of your fantasies in Contact is so touching - and funny - and really hits the heart, in the end. I still see your eyes, which you use so well, as the pin spot frames your face at the end of your section in the show. It brought tears to my eyes. And here you are, in the most talked about show on Broadway in years, something truly fresh and new. How does it feel?

Karen: Well, when you're involved in a show that's this little diamond in the rough, so to speak, and you didn't expect much from it, you just loved doing it, and then all of a sudden you find everyone else feeling the same as you, it's wonderful. It's so good to know that the audience is buying what you're doing.

Finis: Do you mean that when you were in production you didn't know the show would be such a big hit?

Karen: Right. I wasn't sure, because there was no singing, no score. (It's all done to recorded music) But when you have a good premise, and characters that people care about, that's the bottom line, that makes the difference. 

Finis: And what a difference for you - no songs to sing. Back to ballet!

Karen: Right! I do miss the singing, but in doing classical ballet, I can keep my nose to the grindstone and keep myself busy with how accurately I must execute the steps each night, with panache (I hope) It's a tall order.

Finis: You know, it's strange, but I didn't miss the singing, because I was so absorbed in just accepting what was presented.

Karen: Singing, in musical theatre, is an extension of the character's voice and their thoughts. In Contact, the dancing is the extension. The message is in the movement. The body language, the facial expressions continue to tell the story after we have spoken some lines. It works.

Finis: Well, it works wonderfully well, as audiences and critics, alike, attest. How lucky you are to be part of such a wonderful show.

Karen: Well, you know, Agnes de Mille did the dream ballet in Oklahoma. I think Susan is of that genre. She is someone expanding upon that idea. Not only does she use classical music, but also popular. She's creating her own stories. I like to give Susan Stroman credit because I think the way she's telling her stories is with humor, with passion.

Finis: I think that's a key to Susan. She has a sense of humor, as well as passion.

Karen: Yes, with Susan, there's always something going on with two people, but it's fun, it's passionate. She creates a place where you can find happiness.

Finis: That's very important.

Karen: Yes, and a lot of the time, the woman has the upper hand.

Finis: As in the part you play, we feel you're the winner, because you have the spirituality and the power to soar with your dreams, while your husband has only his physical power over you. If you see a good Balanchine ballet, to Tchaikovsky for instance, it's resolved at the end, everything fits and you go out feeling all is right with the world, there is order and balance and symmetry. We go out feeling we can continue to hope and dream -- as we do after seeing your show, Contact. I know you're in a long run show, Karen, but you always have some irons in the fire, don't you?

Karen: Yes, I'm doing a benefit evening for The Lincoln Center in May. I'm going to do Nellie Forbush in South Pacific, with George Hearn.

Finis: Another one of my favorite shows, an all time great show, and a great part for you. How are you preparing for it?

Karen: I'm reading James Michener, who wrote Tales of The South Pacific, on which the show was based. I'm reading as much as I can about the people of the time. I want to know what they did, how they thought. I'm also reading what the composers, Rodgers & Hammerstein, had to say about the creation of the show. It's very helpful knowing where everything came from, and then incorporating those ideas into my performance.

Finis: That's what all good actors do, isn't it? They fill themselves with as much resource material as possible, and then choose what they want to use. Let's hope PBS tapes the benefit, so we can all enjoy what is sure to be another groundbreaking performance from Karen Ziemba! Keep up your beautiful work. We look forward to your next show, and thank you for talking with us.

Karen: Thank you!