Finis: How did you get the job with Twyla Tharp Dance?

Liz: One of her dancers, Keith Roberts, (former American Ballet Theatre Principal and now starring with Liz in Movin' Out) was in Fosse, and he thought Twyla would like me, so he invited her to the show. Afterwards, she called and said "Elizabeth, I'd like you to come and rehearse with me tomorrow." So, I went. And that was it! I just walked into the room, and she started choreographing. She just got right to it.

Finis: Was it just you?

Liz: It was me, and Keith Roberts. She choreographed a duet for us, in about three hours. She was putting back together Twyla Tharp Dance. There were just six of us: Keith Roberts, myself, John Selya, Ashlee Tuttle, Ben Bowman, and Alex Brady. For two years, we toured the country. And then we started working on Movin' Out.

Finis: So, what was it like, to do Twyla's kind of movement?

Liz: Well, I was so nervous at first. With Twyla, when you first meet her, there aren't a lot of niceties. She just gets right down to business. I think we exchanged two words, and then there she was, choreographing. It was really intense! I was sooo nervous, the first couple of times.

Finis: Did she do things on you?

Liz: She works two ways: sometimes she demonstrates steps, and we'll dance behind her, for maybe 10 minutes or so. We pick up as much as we can, and then we recreate it for her.

Finis: Does she use music?

Liz: Yes, always to music. She'll play music, and then she'll start dancing. We dance behind her, picking up as much as we can. And then she'll stop, and say, "OK, show me what you got out of that." And so we'll take bits of pieces of what we remember, and then she'll take those bits and pieces and put them together. It's really - actually I have to say that the way she choreographs is magical - she does it so quickly! After she gets a lot of material together, she goes back over it, and edits.

Sometimes she might even change the music. For instance, you might have learned this bit of choreography to one piece of music, and then find out that she had actually intended to use an entirely different piece of music, but it may have the same meter. It has an interesting effect, because it sort of changes how you do something. It informs you in a different way.

And sometimes, when she choreographs - especially when she's choreographing duets - she'll describe what she wants: "I want a lift that goes this way." And we'll come up with something, and then she'll say, "OK, I like that, that's good!" Sometimes it's hard to figure out how that partnering actually is going to work mechanically. So, she'll leave it up to us, the dancers, the man and the woman, to figure out how to make something work mechanically. And, sometimes, it doesn't work. And, sometimes, something else comes out that is just as interesting.

Finis: Movin' Out is about relationships, and people progressing through time, and different experiences. In creating the show, did Twyla give you an emotional point of view? Were you trying to capture specific feelings, or describe various situations? It's not traditional ballet partnering: bourrée, bourrée, plié pirouette and promenade. How did it come together?

Liz: That's a good question, because, actually the way these things were put together was a very layered process. We actually started with nuts and bolts choreography, no dramatic content, no concern for the scene, or - except maybe, maybe we would have one idea. And that might be, this is a romantic pas de deux. OK. So that's our one idea. But the first thing we'd work on were the steps. And the partnering. And then, after that, the next stage would be, OK, how are we going to make these steps translate into really specific feelings and moods? And sometimes, Twyla would take out whole sections of choreography, because it would be too much dancing in places where we needed more emotional input. So, it was sort of a process of starting out with lots of material, and then taking away and stripping it down, so that the emotions would be allowed to come through. Sometimes we'd just stand, and look at our partners. We'd just be ordinary people, not dancers.

Finis: Did she know from the beginning the musical pieces she was going to use? I know you went through a big reorganizing while you were out of town in Chicago. The first thing I always heard about the show was that the second act was great, but the first act was . . .

Liz: Crazy! (She laughs) I think the problem was that there was too much material for the first act, there were too many characters, too many things going on. So, when you watched it, you didn't know where to look. You didn't know which characters to follow. And so in Chicago, Twyla took away a lot of secondary characters that were not necessary to really forward the plot. So, that made it much clearer for the audience. It was great to have this out of town experience, because it gave Twyla a chance to see what she had put up in the studio, to see it onstage, and then to say, yes, this is just way too much. And so she took a really big swipe at it, and got rid of a lot of things. This was difficult for some people in the ensemble, because their characters were sort of erased. It was a hard time for a lot of people in the show.

Finis: So how are you dealing with doing the same show over and over, in a small Broadway house, with the audience right in your face, and the orchestra on stage behind you?

Liz: Actually, I really like it. In a way, it's sort of like being under a microscope. It brings everything into a really clear focus, I think, for both the audience and the performers. The stage is really - small. You don't have the sort of expansive feeling that you have on a ballet stage, where you feel like you can run around the stage forever. It's different, but, I don't think that a large stage is necessary for our show, where we're telling these little stories. And, I think the size actually helps us to bring things in, and make things intimate, for the audience. Twyla kept telling us to play our scenes as far downstage as possible, to really get right down to the front of the stage, so that you're right with the audience, and the audience can be with you and see clearly.

Finis: After all your years as a ballet dancer, you're used to dancing on larger stages, farther away from the audience.

Liz: Uh hum. In ballet, you're much more remote. You're almost up on a pedestal. Oh, I know what it is! In a lot of ballet companies, doing ballet pieces, you're portraying sort of an ideal figure. Something other worldly. In our show, we're portraying human beings who have real flaws, and all of the facets that real people have. Not queens, or sylphs, or fairies. We're real people.

Finis: Normally, when you sign on for a Broadway show, that means eight shows a week. You and the other Principals only do six shows a week. Did Twyla arrange this?

Liz: Yes. She really felt that doing two shows in one day would be too much. And, I would have to agree with her. At one time, we were contracted to do eight shows a week, and the best efforts are made that we only do six a week. However, some times emergencies happen, with injuries etc., and, actually one week Keith and I did two shows on a Wednesday, and it was really difficult.

Finis: Is it because it's so physically and emotionally hard?

Liz: It's actually both. But I would say the real strain is physically. I don't think it's really possible to do eight shows a week for any length on time.

Finis: You're on stage almost the whole show, aren't you?

Liz: We're on stage almost the whole show. We never stop.

Finis: If you're not on stage, you're changing costume, or ...

Liz:  or changing wigs! I love doing six shows a week. Because we're playing characters, you can always explore that character, you can always find different things to do each show. For me, that's the fun part.

Finis: How is the audience reaction?

Liz: Last night our whole front row was all Billy Joel fans. They were so enthusiastic, even singing the songs! It was like a rock concert. And what's really neat is that I think that those people are people who have probably never been to a dance concert, so they were seeing and hearing music they love as well as being exposed to something they'd never seen before. And I think they really loved it. I don't know if our show is what they expected, but I think that when they left, they had all really been affected.

You know, I think people really respond to dancing. My agent came to see the show in Chicago, when the show wasn't as clear as it is now, and he said "You know, I love your show, but I don't know why, because a lot of the time I was confused by the plot. But I laughed, and I cried, and I felt things, and that's wonderful!" I think that's the response a lot of people have. The show touches them somewhere, you know, a little bit deeper. We see people crying, in the audience

Finis: Liz, if you can go back in time . . . I'm sure every performer goes through a low point in his or her career. You know, where you think you're going to lose it completely. Did that ever happen to you?

Liz: Definitely! I'd say my lowest point as a dancer really would have had to have been at The Joffrey Ballet. I felt . . . I really, for a while, felt pretty hopeless about what I was doing. I didn't feel empowered. I didn't feel good about myself as a dancer.

Finis: Was that when you did Monotones on TV?

Liz: Uh hum. Yes, it was a hard time for me personally, and professionally. However, I think that if I hadn't had that strict disciplinarian experience, maybe I wouldn't be as focused as I am now. I'm not really sure, but in hindsight, I'd say I was really driven to the point where I had to make a choice. I either had to quit, because I wasn't enjoying myself, and just take a big chance, to see what else there was that I could do.

I decided to open my eyes, and see what possibilities there were in other companies, and with other choreographers. And when I made that decision, it was really empowering. Everything really changed. It was also a lot about finding out who I was: "Who am I, and what do I really love to do?" It was about making choices, even if sometimes those choices meant not making any money, or, in some cases, they ended up being very lucrative. But, basically it was really about making choices based on what you want. And, also, having a realization about who you are, and what kind of dancer you are, and being able to be objective about that.

Finis: Well, here you are, we're going to start class in a few minutes, and then you're going to do a show tonight. What goes through your mind during performance days?

Liz: I've realized that every day, from when I wake up until I'm done with the show, it's all about gearing up for the show. Even though I'm not specifically thinking about it, unconsciously I am. I make sure I get enough sleep, and I try to really relax in the morning, and then I have a really great meal. I take class, I go to physical therapy, and then I go to my dressing room and put on my makeup. Everything is all timed out, just perfectly.

This show requires a little more focus than Fosse. In a strange way, it requires, like, a relaxed state. I think that what's new about this show for me is all the acting. Because you really have to, you can't just dance, you really have to act, and tell these stories in each scene, and be able to relate to what happens. And one thing about acting is that if you're too ... mental ... it doesn't work. If you think about it too much, it doesn't work. You're not free. You're not spontaneous. So, really it's more about achieving sort of a nice relaxed state of mind, and being able to go on stage and have a relaxed energy.

Finis: So you can respond, is that what it is?

Liz: Right, so you can react, and respond, and be spontaneous, and really have genuine feelings, rather than putting it on.

Finis: Right now, you're in a very strong financial position. (FJ note: The cast of "Movin' Out" is paid considerably higher than the standard union contracts) What do you see in your future? Are you thinking about it?

Liz: I'm thinking about the future a lot! (laughter) I have some really crazy ideas about things I want to do.

Finis: I'm curious, was your family wealthy?

Liz: No. My family was upper middle class. I went to a private school. I was very adamant when I came to New York that I was going to support myself, because my family was a little against my being a dancer. They wanted me to go to college and become a lawyer or a doctor. I was really good in High School. I was at the top of my class. I was accepted at colleges, and turned them all down, and I made my High School very upset, because I was the only person to not go to college.

So, I am in a good situation now. But it's interesting. I think being a dancer is different from any other profession. Even though right now I am making more money than I ever have, six months from now I could be making nothing. You know, the life of a performer demands that you put money away when you can, because you never know what the future brings. I've been thinking of going back to school, and a lot of different things.

Finis: Are you going to keep dancing?

I think I'll always dance, in some way or other. I don't think I could ever just quit.

Finis: Do you have any advice for young performers?

Liz: Well, it's funny, because my step-daughter, Savannah, is 19 and is an aspiring singer-dancer. I talk to her a lot about these things, what it's like at her age to be starting into this career which is very challenging. Whether you're a dancer, singer, or actor, it's very challenging. And mostly, it's challenging mentally.

One thing I'd like to tell young people is . . . to . . . relax. (She laughs) Really, to relax. I think performing is so competitive, but when people are young, they don't realize how much time they have. There's this huge rush, to be successful, "I have to get there, and I have to get there now." And that puts so much pressure on yourself. I think sometimes it's good to be aggressive, and to want to pursue your career, and to pursue jobs, and all those things. But, I think it's also important to understand yourself, and really know where you want to go.

And, I think a lot of times, young students are always comparing themselves to everybody else. I know I did that, and it was such a detriment to my growth, when I look back on it. I was always comparing myself - "look at that girl, she's so much further along than I am, and I'm older than she is!" And I think that only holds us back. We have to look at ourselves, look inside ourselves, and see what we can do to make ourselves better. Ask yourself, what do I want, and where am I going? Don't compare yourself with someone else.

Finis: You've been with Twyla longer than most people in the show, so you also saw some of the people she looked at, but didn't take.

Liz: Right. Sometimes, in auditions, you'll see how she'll overlook the people who don't get the combinations quickly, because she wants to see things instantly. And that goes for a lot of choreographers. And also, nowadays, because of the financial constraints on the arts, we don't have as much rehearsal time to put things together.

Finis: So, young people need to do the things that will help them to be good learners. be able to concentrate. To be able to focus.

Liz: Yes. Focus. I love to take Yoga. I think it's important to develop different facets of your instrument. Yoga is great. Ballet class is great. Modern class is great. It's really important to be well-rounded, and not leave any elements out. Learn all different kinds of disciplines. I encourage all young people to see theatre, because you may discover something you could really love, and think, gosh, maybe I can do that!

Finis: Just as you have, Liz. Thanks so much.