It's a pleasure to introduce one of my all-time favorite artists, Karine Plantadit-Bageot. I met her when I was teaching the morning ballet class at The Alvin Ailey American Dance Center, and couldn't take my eyes off her. She's strikingly beautiful, dances with incredible strength and grace, and never makes a wrong move. Her performances with The Ailey Company are unforgettable. Right now, she's in the new Broadway musical "Saturday Night Fever."

Finis: Karine, tell us about "Saturday Night Fever."

Karine: I think that SNF is a show that brings nostalgia to people, and we have the pleasure of seeing the audience go back to the magic of the past as they watch the show. There's a huge age range in the audience, from young people to over those over 80. The show touches everyone.

Finis: What do you do in the show?

Karine: I am a dancer-singer-actor, and I have the role of Shirley Charles. As a featured dancer, she's part of the three semi-finalist couples in the competition dance.

Finis: How did you decide to do this show?

Karine: I wanted to get out of the "Lion King." I wanted a change. I did the audition knowing it was for a featured role, and I personally like the music from this era. I pretty much like change in general, so that's why I was up for it. I like working with different directors with different visions.

Finis: How long were you in the "Lion King," and what was that like? 

Karine: I was in the show from the beginning, for about two years. It was an amazing experience and my first Broadway show. Working with so many different artists broadened my vision of dance.

Finis: I think it's the most beautiful show I've ever seen, very positive and uplifting. It has all the magic one expects from the theater.

Karine: Actually, to do it was an uplifting experience. The roster of artists was the most exceptional ensemble of people I've ever met. The South African performers and singers especially.

Finis: Aren't you from South Africa?

Karine: No, but I was raised in Cameroon, West Africa. It's close to Nigeria.

Finis: Is that where you began dancing?

Karine: Yes, in a very small school in which there was "The Ballet Teacher," as she called herself. She wasn't a professional, just an ordinary woman. The fascinating element in it is that no matter what level it was, it kept me interested. We had absolutely no exposure to ballet dance whatsoever. I guess it was my destiny to dance, no matter how I started.

Finis: But that's how many people start! You become a dancer because of your love for it, not necessarily because you had the best exposure or training.

Karine: Right, except that I was in pointe shoes at five years old, because she said I was talented!

Finis: Yes, I was doing "step, kick your head" when I was six. Anyway, you did end up being a dancer. What happened from then until when I first met you as a dancer with The Alvin Ailey Company in New York?

Karine: I was in Africa until I was 14, and I did keep dancing. Looking back, I really think the TV show "Fame" did it for me. It made me realize that dance could actually be a profession. Remember that in Africa there were no professional ballet companies or Broadway shows. Of course dance is part of the people of Africa, but it was not seen as a profession. We then found out about a school in France, on the Riviera, called the Centre de Danse International of Rosella Hightower.

Finis: How interesting. When I was dancing with The Harkness Ballet and we were in residence in Cannes, we had daily class with her. She really influenced my performing and teaching. She was the first ballet teacher I saw who didn't stand flat turned out, and she had such a quiet manner and kept saying "balance, balance, balance."

Karine: She is an amazing lady, and that's where I first started to study seriously, taking classes every day. I also went to regular academic school besides all the dance classes. I had an incredible time there. It was fabulous. All kinds of different people. The teachers cared so much for each student. My ballet technique was minimal at the time, but they worked with me. The jazz teacher was Monica Saez, and she just decided that I would make it with what I came with (which was not very good!) and she convinced Rosella to take me in. I didn't like the ballet technique. I was a rebellious child, but Monica really cared and she catered the world of dance to my body. She was really serious. I spent two years there when I was 15 to 17. They were really great years. At that time, I also received my academic diploma in language and philosophy.

During that time, my mother was in Paris and saw the Ailey Company. The next morning she called me, raving about the company, which I had never heard of. She got me a round trip from Cannes to Paris to see the company perform. She had spoken to Mr. Ailey at the stage door, and he gave her the address of the school in NYC. I saw the Ailey Company, and it was love at first sight. I said to myself, "For me, it will be them or nothing."

So, I decided to go to NYC to join the company. I was 17 and there was no limit for me. I got into the school, and the first day went to Denise Jefferson, the director, and asked her very bluntly, "Where is the company?" She said "Why?" And I said, "Because I came here to be in it."

Finis: OK! Then what happened?

Karine: Miss Jefferson said, "Have you ever taken Horton?" My response was negative; therefore I enrolled in the school, since the basis of the Ailey Company is Horton Technique.

Finis: Yes, that would make some sense!

Karine: After I enrolled in the school, I realized what it meant to be in The Ailey Company.

Finis: What do you mean?

Karine: I found out how much you had to struggle to be part of the company. It was like there was a fence around it, and I started to lose the dream to be in it.

Finis: Was it because it was hard to learn the technique?

Karine: I was totally naïve at 17. I thought that simply having the desire to be in the company would do it for me. I thought I would just walk in and get right into the company. It was that simple. I wasn't arrogant. I was just naïve. I thought just wanting it would do it.

Finis: What happened? Did you like the technique?

Karine: I spent a year and half in the school, on scholarship. I loved the technique. I realized that the quality of the dancers in the company was very high, and that to be in the company required more than simply my wanting to be in it. I simply wasn't at the level to be in the company. I worked very, very hard, but wasn't ready to be in the company, and so I thought maybe Ailey wasn't the only destination for me. It was the reason I came to NYC, but then I thought I should look at other companies to see if I could work with them. I just wanted to dance.

Finis: So did you get some other kind of work?

Karine: Yes. My first contract was a total disaster. It was with Le Ballet Jazz de Paris, a three-month contract. The company was based in New York. It was a show called "Lost Luggage." It was kind of a dance revue, four or five dancers and the directors, who also danced. It was the worst experience as a performer that I've ever had! The quality of work was a disaster. The way they treated the dancers was a disaster. The condition of traveling -- we toured Europe -- was a disaster. I was 18 and called my mother in Africa, so she flew to Germany to come to see me. She found out it was a disaster. We weren't even paid. But she made me realize that this was my first contract and therefore probably the best thing that could happen to me, because I would never sign a contract like that again. So it was nice it happened to me at 18, and not 30.

Finis: Absolutely! Then what happened?

Karine: So I went back to The Ailey School, and was doing a workshop with Talley Beatty, and at the same time Judith Jamison was having auditions for her own company called The Jamison Project. I had missed the first call, but Anne Marie Forsyth, the head of The Horton Department in the school, introduced me to Miss Jamison and asked her to look at me. The audition itself was wonderful -- two to three hours of pure dance. People were dancing their hearts out. I got the job, and found myself in Philadelphia working with this legend, Judith Jamison, and twelve amazing dancers who were all talented and giving. The level of artistry on stage was like an airplane taking off. I was totally at home. My energy was beaming. I was in a total dreamland. Everyone was giving everything they had. The relationship between Judith and the dancers was powerful. Very honest, nurturing.

Finis: You sound so enthusiastic. Boy, I don't often hear dancers talking about their work experience with such glowing terms. Lucky you! 

Karine: It was amazing.

Finis: Let's talk about you and the Ailey Company.

Karine: This was my dream come true. And, with every dream, you think you have arrived and actually you have just departed. I mean, that's where the hard work starts. It felt like the company was a well, and I kept falling down, down, down, down. And I don't mean it negatively. The requirements in energy, focus, concentration, stamina, were endless. At the time I joined the company, I had the great privilege to be surrounded by senior members like Gary de Loach, David Chase, Dudley Williams and Sarita Allen. It was a potpourri of talent that was given to me to grab onto when needed. I was very lucky to be there at that time.

However, it was difficult in the beginning. Alvin Ailey had just passed away. Judith Jamison was chosen to take over the company. She brought six of us from The Jamison Project. The morale of the company was low. Dancers felt angry. They wanted more than anything to carry on with his work, to carry the flame of Mr. Ailey, but they needed to be receptive to Judith so that the company could continue. 

I spent seven years in the company, traveling eight months of the year, working with world-class choreographers, challenging myself to become every day a better dancer, a better person. What proved interesting and new to me was that once you are part of the company, you become categorized by the way you move and act. You become typecast.

Finis: But that happens in every dance company. It happened to me, too. I was always the company "exotic" with the feathers in my hair and the jewel in my navel, when I really wanted to be wearing white tights in classical roles.

Karine: It happens in the outside world, and then we see it happening in the company. It makes you think you've stopped growing, because of the limited understanding of who you are. 

Finis: Yes, you feel like there's a glass ceiling. You give up hoping for new things because you've been typecast so much. It was later that I learned I had to deepen myself and develop my capabilities so that choreographers would see me in a new light. Finally, after I had changed, they did.

Karine: Yes, but at the time I was convinced you can't change because they have their mind set on who you are. One of the main reasons I left the company was that I felt typecast. The other was that I was married and the traveling got harder and harder.

Finis: Yes, I think the Ailey Company must have the world's record for touring.

Karine: Oh my God yes, but that's how the company survives.

Finis: Yes, but you feel like you're living out of a suitcase. You have no home. With the Joffrey Ballet and Harkness Ballet companies, I was always on the road. That's one of the reasons I stopped dancing. I couldn't face another museum or hotel.

Karine: Yes, it takes its toll, and finally you can't do it any more. Maybe also if I hadn't felt labeled or typecast, I might have kept on because of the interest and the challenge. After I left, then I faced the fact that I had to find a new job. I was scared.

Finis: So what did you do?

Karine: Well, first of all I got over my fears as I worked on trusting myself. (It is still a work in progress, one of those lifetime challenges.)

Finis: I know what you mean. The challenges never stop. So, you had achieved professional success and proved yourself on stage - on many stages all over the world - so you felt you could meet the challenge.

Karine: Yes. I had made up my mind to leave the Ailey Company with or without a job to go to. So my first step was to start opening myself to information on what was going on in NYC, since I had been on tour for eight years. I found out through word of mouth that Garth Fagan was choreographing a new Broadway show called "The Lion King." So I did the audition and got a call back a week later. I had thought about Broadway when I was seven or ten years old, but I didn't know what it really meant. I never pursued it when I got to NYC. So this was an amazing plate set in front of me, saying, "This is for you." So I said to myself, "You want to change, so there it is. Take it!"

Finis: And you did.

Karine: I jumped because I knew Garth's choreography and it would mean I would stay in NYC. At the time, no one knew what the show was going to be like. We could never have anticipated its success, and how hard it would be. They told me on the phone it would be a challenge, and those are words I like, so I said yes.

We started in Minneapolis for three months, creating the show. My dancer's eyes were blinded by the talent that this entire cast possessed. All of a sudden, it wasn't only about dance. It was about singing and acting. Dance played a very small part. This was a hard awakening, because until then dance was always Number One, the only reason I would be on stage.

All of a sudden I realized I was a beginner in the domains of singing and acting. Interestingly enough, in my dancing I always acted, but without knowing it.

Finis: That's why I always liked working with you in class and seeing you on stage. You always seemed to have an inner conversation going on.

Karine: But I wish I had done more. I wish I had known those techniques earlier. So I made a pledge that whenever I danced, I would incorporate everything and stop treating dance as a separate entity.

Finis: Excellent. I wish more professional dancers would have this realization. Then they'd be more interesting as performers.

Karine: So "The Lion King" came to Broadway in November 1997 and became a hit.

Finis: To say the least. The orchestra is sold out for a year ahead. Amazing. It's still the hottest ticket in town. And deservedly so. It's still the most beautiful show in town.

Karine: Yes, I became a marathon runner. You have to learn to do eight shows a week. It's a track you create. Everyday you go to the theater, and follow your track: You meet the wig department, then makeup, then costumes. You meet exactly the same people at the same time each day, and go on stage. Having a routine like this week after week for two years meant I had to renew my love for being onstage each day.

Finis: I know what you mean because I did the Broadway Show "Flower Drum Song" for eight months and it drove me nuts singing "Chop Suey" eight times a week with the required grinning from ear to ear. My lips used to quiver from the tension. Boy!

Karine: For me, the challenge was made a bit easier by the company I was with. They were phenomenal. To me it seemed to be the best cast on Broadway. The friendships I made helped me to stay with the show for two years. I also learned, when I was bored with myself, to appreciate other people's talent.

Finis: Good. So how did you leave the show?

Karine: I had decided I had to leave to protect myself from getting stale. I started auditioning, but none of them worked out as jobs. I studied acting at HB studios, and took singing classes. I did everything that everyone in the theater does: take classes, get a head shot and a resume. You have to play the game.

Finis: You're into other projects aren't you?

Karine: Once you're in a Broadway show, you have time to think. Your fulfillment, artistically speaking, is your responsibility. So one afternoon, Michael Thomas and Elizabeth Roxas (formerly with Ailey) and I, started speaking of an ideal evening that we could put together. That was the beginning of our project called RHYTHMEK. (The last three letters stand for Michael-Elizazbeth-Karine)

Finis: Ha, clever! I know you worked with Bill Hastings who teaches at The Broadway Dance Center. He was so excited to choreograph for you. So what's happening with this now?

Karine: For the moment, we are looking for promoters and booking agents. And you will hear from us soon.

Finis: I must tell you from my own experience of founding and directing my own Chamber Ballet U.S.A. that I know what it's like to be chief cook and bottle washer and to always be walking around with your hands open for donations. I wish you lots of luck.

Karine: And stamina. And determination. And endurance. It is a dream. It puts in perspective why you are an artist to start with.

Finis: Yes, because many dancers seem to forget why they first started dancing. They just loved to dance, without knowing what they were doing. And they loved doing it and reacted naturally. Unfortunately, that honest reaction to dance tends to get lost as we get older and actually become professional dancers.

Karine: Yes, money and ego get in the way. I will also say bad guidance, or lack of proper direction from the top.

Finis: Absolutely. The dancers in a company need directors who can bring out the best in each of them. Dancers can become like spoiled children who don't have parental guidance; they need to learn the proper attitude toward their work and the people they work with. What advice do you have for aspiring professionals?

Karine: I would say that the way you live your life is the way you dance.

Finis: I agree with you 100%.

Karine: There is a parallel between life and dance, and in many ways, when we get stuck in dance (technically or artistically) we have the tendency to look for the answer outside of our own body. For example, we think about what the step should look like, instead of working at it and trying different ways to do it. We also have excuses like the floor is not right, the mirror is fattening, I ate something wrong.

In those moments, we all need to remember that the pleasure of doing the step is primordial, and if you can get back to the original love of dance, you can fix the step.

Finis: I think this is what I often see happens to professionals. They lose their "innocence" and pure attitude they had as children toward dance. They become cynical and jaded and think, "arabesque is arabesque." They've lost the joy of dance and can't find the meaning of the step. It becomes cold and impersonal "positioning."

Karine: Right. The other thing I want to say is that regardless of the situations or events, we should be thankful as dancers for our bodies, our instruments, and that we should take care of ourselves. It's an amazing machine that we beat up for hours each day. Many times when we are young, we don't realize what we are doing to it. If you come back to your original love of dance, you will treat yourself much differently. This concerns food, nutrition, drugs, bad exercise, and bad sleeping habits. As dancers we are so fortunate to be using an instrument that is actually our own, and not belonging to someone else.

Finis: Karine, you have been most inspiring. Now I know more why I love to see you dance. Do you have parting advice for our readers?

Karine: For the younger dancers and the others out there, fall down seven times, get up the eighth time. It's not easy, but no one said it would be!